Curse

Keira Nightgale · Nov 05, 2008, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

When we talk about skill bars, we assume the players are good. i.e the Mesmer will use something else on you or others; good Mesmers also have Diversion, which will either make you stop spamming Xinraes' or you're going to be a retard and get it Diverted. Wastrels' spam comes into this equation too. Oh, and if there's a Monk with clear status it's easily outbealed.

PS: Do you cast through Diversion or is the enemy team that pathetic at pressure?

No, it's not an "uber energy management" or "spike heal" skill, it's a cheap healing skill. A Ritualist in no way would compare to a Monk when it comes to upholding a party, and even then using WoW or WoS will do more good.

MBaS is bad because it relies on a spirit; i.e it dies easy. Again, we're assuming the players are good here. That alone stops the efficiency of the skill.

GoLE? It disallows hex removal and a more accessable condition removal. Try again please.

I advise you to stop giving bad advice.

We're talking about RA here, and the RA mesmer is retarded by definition. But using your definition of pro RA mesmer a hex removal wouldn't do any good since the pro RA mesmer would use at least a cover hex anyway. And breaking news, people in RA rarely attack spirits, you should stop playing the forums and play the arena, you should have known this. If you play weapon of warding+ weapon of shadow there is no reason to not use GoLE. I'd advise you to drop "I know it all" attitude, that works only against the russian scrub.

Tyla · Nov 05, 2008, 01:59 PM // 13:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

We're talking about RA here, and the RA mesmer is retarded by definition. But using your definition of pro RA mesmer a hex removal wouldn't do any good since the pro RA mesmer would use at least a cover hex anyway.

That'll be Wastrels' Worry. Sorry, you don't need to be pro to play a VoR Mesmer.

Quote:

And breaking news, people in RA rarely attack spirits, you should stop playing the forums and play the arena, you should have known this. If you play weapon of warding+ weapon of shadow there is no reason to not use GoLE. I'd advise you to drop "I know it all" attitude, that works only against the russian scrub.

Wait, so because it's RA it's okay?!?!

If you use bad players in examples, you'll notice a common patern. Take a Warrior for example; a bad player would fail out loud with the bar, you're supposed to use Bulls' more tactically, not use it on every oppertunity you get. If you use it this way, your knockdown chains only become more powerful and long. Spikes are better coordinated with right usage of it, and the list goes on. Same goes for a Shock Axe, a bad player will probably spam Shock on recharge, chase protted targets all of the time, Frenzy at every oppertunity not taking into account that sometimes observation on the enemies' side can get the better of you and the list goes on.

If we were basing this around bad players then we might as well scrap the idea of ideal skill use and roll our heads on the keyboard. Just because it's RA doesn't mean that you're against players who are that terrible 100% of the time.

Oh, and Veil destroys cover hexes if you're not slow.

Keira Nightgale · Nov 05, 2008, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

That'll be Wastrels' Worry. Sorry, you don't need to be pro to play a VoR Mesmer.

Wait, so because it's RA it's okay?!?!

If you use bad players in examples, you'll notice a common patern. Take a Warrior for example; a bad player would fail out loud with the bar, you're supposed to use Bulls' more tactically, not use it on every oppertunity you get. If you use it this way, your knockdown chains only become more powerful and long. Spikes are better coordinated with right usage of it, and the list goes on. Same goes for a Shock Axe, a bad player will probably spam Shock on recharge, chase protted targets all of the time, Frenzy at every oppertunity not taking into account that sometimes observation on the enemies' side can get the better of you and the list goes on.

If we were basing this around bad players then we might as well scrap the idea of ideal skill use and roll our heads on the keyboard. Just because it's RA doesn't mean that you're against players who are that terrible 100% of the time.

Oh, and Veil destroys cover hexes if you're not slow.

You take by example the warrior, but if you ever done gvg (and I think you did) you would know that there are what 4- max 5 good warriors still playing GW, the average RA warrior would never attack spirits, they actually run away from them thinking they are some sort of mob giving AIDS on hit. RA has a wide range of players, the majority of em never seen a decent bar , nor they know target selection. The only challenge in RA is in int districts but again isn't that much of an hassle. Thus not bringing at least a spirit and a skill that takes advantage of it is gimping yourself in 85% of the cases. If my grandmother had a penis she would be my grandfather, same if RA was played mainly by good players you bring as example it would be called GvG.

Tyla · Nov 05, 2008, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keira Nightgale

You take by example the warrior, but if you ever done gvg (and I think you did) you would know that there are what 4- max 5 good warriors still playing GW, the average RA warrior would never attack spirits, they actually run away from them thinking they are some sort of mob giving AIDS on hit.

When I say "bad" I mean that they don't even understand basic tacticalities. You don't need to be one of the best to grasp this.

Quote:

RA has a wide range of players, the majority of em never seen a decent bar , nor they know target selection. The only challenge in RA is in int districts but again isn't that much of an hassle. Thus not bringing at least a spirit and a skill that takes advantage of it is gimping yourself in 85% of the cases. If my grandmother had a penis she would be my grandfather, same if RA was played mainly by good players you bring as example it would be called GvG.

Did I say RA was played mainly by good players? No. Did I say there's a chance on encountering a decent player? Yes. Just because there are bad players doesn't mean you take your build as an advantage against idiots, and even then the other remains superior.

TheDarkshineKnight · Nov 05, 2008, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Yeah, Keira, bad players are a non-issue in RA if you're facing them. You could have a bar with essentially nothing on it and still beat them. You do, however, need counters for when you run into good players. You can't just assume because it's RA that everyone is a terrible player. And, you NEED hex removal in RA, since the majority of good players there play Mesmer.

Stealth Bomberman · Nov 05, 2008, 07:57 PM // 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Spirit Light Weapon is a horrible skill. It's basically an elite Healing Breeze that's got a hard-to-fulfill condition. If someone takes your spirit down, you lose strength in 4 skills.
Weapon of Warding is far superior, and that's not even elite. Reason? Unremovable block. Sure, it's 10 energy, but then again it reduces pressure much more strongly than SLW. Not taking WoW on a Ritualist with enough open slots and attribution in Restoration is just dumb.

Another thing is GWT, it's a weak, selfish skill. With PWK, you gain access to a party heal and an armour boost, and with BWM, you gain the ability to prevent Assassin spikes alot easier assuming they're not taking advantage of Asassins' Remedy.

any1 who plays ra knows they should bring builds that benefit themselves mostly. a rit(which is a support healer), that cant benefit himself is a dead rit which=dead teammates.

the diff between [weapon of warding] and [spirit light weapon] is block. not every teams gonna have melee and if ur smart u would place ur spirit away from the heat and close to ur 60 AL guys.

Tyla · Nov 05, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

any1 who plays ra knows they should bring builds that benefit themselves mostly. a rit(which is a support healer), that cant benefit himself is a dead rit which=dead teammates.

And how does PWK or BWM not fulfill this benefit? BWM completely shits up physical based attackers, PWK allows a small armour boost and party heal on drop. The other just heals.

Quote:

the diff between [weapon of warding] and [spirit light weapon] is block. not every teams gonna have melee and if ur smart u would place ur spirit away from the heat and close to ur 60 AL guys.

Considering melee deal the most potential damage and even an Assassin bar could destroy a Ritualist, Weapon of Warding has enough spammability to keep you up. Excluding melee, an elite Healing Breeze won't get you far either.

Stealth Bomberman · Nov 06, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

And how does PWK or BWM not fulfill this benefit? BWM completely shits up physical based attackers, PWK allows a small armour boost and party heal on drop. The other just heals.

Weapon of shadow>BwM. i use both, but having an unstrippable weapon spell that blinds an atker everytime they hit is pretty godly to me.

P.S. u cant drop BwM if a hammer war or horns/trampling sin has u pinned. pre-prot ftw?

Quote:

Considering melee deal the most potential damage and even an Assassin bar could destroy a Ritualist, Weapon of Warding has enough spammability to keep you up. Excluding melee, an elite Healing Breeze won't get you far either.

once again not every teams gonna have melee, prepare for the long haul and not only worrying about 1 type of team setup. which in ra is completely random.

if spirit light weapon is a elite heal breeze why isnt it an enchant and why do some many rits have greater success in most cases with it than ur average fortress monk. belevie it or not ive seen many a rit out-heal high ranked monks.

TheDarkshineKnight · Nov 06, 2008, 04:24 PM // 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

Weapon of shadow>BwM. i use both, but having an unstrippable weapon spell that blinds an atker everytime they hit is pretty godly to me.

P.S. u cant drop BwM if a hammer war or horns/trampling sin has u pinned. pre-prot ftw?

once again not every teams gonna have melee, prepare for the long haul and not only worrying about 1 type of team setup. which in ra is completely random.

if spirit light weapon is a elite heal breeze why isnt it an enchant and why do some many rits have greater success in most cases with it than ur average fortress monk. belevie it or not ive seen many a rit out-heal high ranked monks.

You can, however, cast Weapon of Warding on yourself just before the sin or warrior gets to you.

Anyhoo, the build I'm using courtesy of Tyla has both Wepaon of Shadow AND Blind Was Mingson, so, whatever argument you're having about those two, it's rather pointless.

Anyhoo, the only skills on the bar tuned specifically for anti-melee is Weapon of Shadow. Blind Was Mingson doubles as fuel for Caretaker's Charge, Channeled Strike, and Soothing Memories. Weapon of Warding can provide a little health regen when necessary. Anyhoo, the only real threats in RA are melee and hexers, and we've got enough tools to take down the former. When encontering a lot of hexers, well, that's sort of why I'm bringing hex removal. The build's essentially prepared for any group of opposing enemies, thanks to how damned versatile it is, which is the whole damned reason to run a Ritualist in PvP. You're never useless in any situation.

EDIT: Dude, I used to use Spirit Light Weapon as my elite. When people bothered to stay near my spirit, yeah, it was nice, but that's because it's RA and people don't coordinate their spikes, so regen's not absolutely terrible. Plus, using it as your elite means you HAVE to run a spirit, and that's bad, since you're essentially restricted to staying near your spirit, and you're completely screwed if it's killed. Good players WILL kill your spirits. I know when I'm playing my EDA Spear Dervish in RA, I bring along Holy Spear not just because it's very cheap with regards to adrenaline, but because it eats spirits, rendering Ritualists generally useless. Hell even bad players kill my spirits, and I generally place them in spots where you have to go out of your way to kill them. This build is freaking awesome because you're not limited to staying near your spirit, you don't rely on easily destroyed spirits to be useful, and because you're ridiculously versatile.

Tyla · Nov 06, 2008, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

P.S. u cant drop BwM if a hammer war or horns/trampling sin has u pinned. pre-prot ftw?

Drop the ashes. Unless your reflexes are absolutely terrible, of course.

Quote:

once again not every teams gonna have melee, prepare for the long haul and not only worrying about 1 type of team setup. which in ra is completely random.

That being true, how can a Ritualist outheal / prot a Monk when it comes to casters too? The only comparable skill is Xinraes', and that eats up your elite slot. Not saying it's not worth it, mind you.

Quote:

if spirit light weapon is a elite heal breeze why isnt it an enchant and why do some many rits have greater success in most cases with it than ur average fortress monk. belevie it or not ive seen many a rit out-heal high ranked monks.

Elaborate. Word of Healing already wins the argument here, because it's got a strong primary heal and an even stronger secondary heal. Don't forget SLW takes up the weapon slot space, disallowing Xinraes', Remedy, WoW and WoS.

Stealth Bomberman · Nov 07, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

EDIT: Dude, I used to use Spirit Light Weapon as my elite. When people bothered to stay near my spirit, yeah, it was nice, but that's because it's RA and people don't coordinate their spikes, so regen's not absolutely terrible. Plus, using it as your elite means you HAVE to run a spirit, and that's bad, since you're essentially restricted to staying near your spirit, and you're completely screwed if it's killed.

find me a rit that doesnt use a spirit, and ill flame myself.

TheDarkshineKnight · Nov 07, 2008, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

find me a rit that doesnt use a spirit, and ill flame myself.

Have you bothered to read the build Tyla and I have been working on?

NeHoMaR · Nov 07, 2008, 05:04 AM // 05:04

When you enter the great RA builds in PvXwiki, the only profession NOT present is Ritualist.
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Category...king_RA_builds
Plenty weird IMO.

ele pl · Nov 07, 2008, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR

When you enter the great RA builds in PvXwiki, the only profession NOT present is Ritualist.
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Category...king_RA_builds
Plenty weird IMO.

Because Wiki tells the truth, amirite?

Dmitri3 · Nov 08, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

Prolly not what you're looking for, since you're looking at a more resto elites, but it's still fun. Don't expect it to heal a lot though, mainly more in lines of "live just enough to kill something". Or cover monk's ass, if you have one on your team.

Ritualist (and a fake secondary: war or sin works best)
Level: 20

Spawning Power: 4 (3+1)
Channeling Magic: 14 (12+2)
Restoration Magic: 13 (12+1)

- Channeled Strike (Channeling Magic)
- Essence Strike (Channeling Magic)
- Caretaker's Charge [Elite] (Channeling Magic)
- Bloodsong (Channeling Magic)
- Generous was Tsungrai (Restoration Magic)
- Soothing Memories (Restoration Magic)
- Weapon of Warding (Restoration Magic)
- Resurrection Signet ( )

All + energy runes, except minors. With such "selfish" skills as GwT, you can afford 40 energy while holding a bundle. Shield+Spear, swap weapon for more energy... basic stuff.

P.S. Oh noes, don't put it on wiki! /sarcasm :P

Tyla · Nov 08, 2008, 07:41 PM // 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stealth Bomberman

find me a rit that doesnt use a spirit, and ill flame myself.

Remember back when Flagrunner Ritualists didn't use spirits?

Put it this way, Recouperation only reduces a bit of pressure, and even then it's only useful because it's radar range, and in a bigger battlefield that poses as a small advantage.

TheDarkshineKnight · Nov 09, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmitri3

Prolly not what you're looking for, since you're looking at a more resto elites, but it's still fun. Don't expect it to heal a lot though, mainly more in lines of "live just enough to kill something". Or cover monk's ass, if you have one on your team.

Ritualist (and a fake secondary: war or sin works best)
Level: 20

Spawning Power: 4 (3+1)
Channeling Magic: 14 (12+2)
Restoration Magic: 13 (12+1)

- Channeled Strike (Channeling Magic)
- Essence Strike (Channeling Magic)
- Caretaker's Charge [Elite] (Channeling Magic)
- Bloodsong (Channeling Magic)
- Generous was Tsungrai (Restoration Magic)
- Soothing Memories (Restoration Magic)
- Weapon of Warding (Restoration Magic)
- Resurrection Signet ( )

All + energy runes, except minors. With such "selfish" skills as GwT, you can afford 40 energy while holding a bundle. Shield+Spear, swap weapon for more energy... basic stuff.

P.S. Oh noes, don't put it on wiki! /sarcasm :P

Actually, I'm running something similar to what you put there. Replace GwT with Blind was Mingson, Bloodsong with Holy Veil, and Essence Strike with Weapon of Shadow and you've got my build. The focus on restoration elites ceased once Tyla posted her Caretaker template on page 1.

Anyhoo, I honestly don't care if the build's put up on PvXWiki or not. If it gets more people interested in playing Ritualists, then I'm pleased. regardless.

Dmitri3 · Nov 09, 2008, 08:23 AM // 08:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight

Actually, I'm running something similar to what you put there. Replace GwT with Blind was Mingson, Bloodsong with Holy Veil, and Essence Strike with Weapon of Shadow and you've got my build. The focus on restoration elites ceased once Tyla posted her Caretaker template on page 1.

Anyhoo, I honestly don't care if the build's put up on PvXWiki or not. If it gets more people interested in playing Ritualists, then I'm pleased. regardless.

I noticed your EDIT with the build only after I posted here... and then I got lazy

.

Anyhow, lots of similar builds are present on wiki and I think it was first taken from observer mode.

The idea behind this, is not the skills, but Channeling/Restoration split, with 4 in Spawning. Spawning Power is not always needed and ritualists can function pretty well without it. Anything else just jumps in a skills bar... and there you have it.

MegaVolti · Nov 09, 2008, 09:54 AM // 09:54

[Essence Strike][Warmonger's Weapon][Weapon of Shadow][Xinrae's Weapon][Mend Body and Soul][Life][Protective Was Kaolai][Flesh of my flesh]

Weapon of Shadow mainly used on self since as healer all melees try to spike me.
Watching 2 Assassins and a Warrior beating me for 10 seconds without doing anything is soo funny

And it happens often in RA.
Xinraes does great damage and it has great heal. One of the best elites in the game. Just spam it on party members if they don't have any other weapon spell.
Your melee will love you for Warmongeres - and the enemy Monk will hate you. Use Mend Body and Soul to keep the one alive that got Warmongerers, Xinraes is for the others.
Essence Strike for energy management, use whenever possible (untargeted is fine).

Swap Weapon of Shadow for Weapon of Warding if you feel like it. I prefer blinding.
Swap Life for Bloodsong if you feel like it. I prefer healing

Dmitri3 · Nov 09, 2008, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

[Essence Strike][Warmonger's Weapon][Weapon of Shadow][Xinrae's Weapon][Mend Body and Soul][Life][Protective Was Kaolai][Flesh of my flesh]

Weapon of Shadow mainly used on self since as healer all melees try to spike me.
Watching 2 Assassins and a Warrior beating me for 10 seconds without doing anything is soo funny

And it happens often in RA.
Xinraes does great damage and it has great heal. One of the best elites in the game. Just spam it on party members if they don't have any other weapon spell.
Your melee will love you for Warmongeres - and the enemy Monk will hate you. Use Mend Body and Soul to keep the one alive that got Warmongerers, Xinraes is for the others.
Essence Strike for energy management, use whenever possible (untargeted is fine).

Swap Weapon of Shadow for Weapon of Warding if you feel like it. I prefer blinding.
Swap Life for Bloodsong if you feel like it. I prefer healing

Essence Strike alone isn't worth to go into channeling. While Warmonger's Weapon is fine, way too often you will get a team without any physicals... and then again, if they get attacked, you'd have to erase that weapon spell.
IMHO, you'd better just play full restoration then.